Honda Generator EB 11000 kicks the circuit breaker

[MM32]

I have a Honda Generator model EB 11000 that kicks the circuit breaker as soon as it starts. By using an Ohm meter I have found that the main winding < red wire > is showing shorted to ground coming out of the back of the generator. The blue wire is not..... Are there parts inside of the generator other than the windings that can cause this problem? I have not opened up the generator assembly to look. Is this a repairable part or is it time or a new generator assembly?

[jdm]

The ciruit breaker is popping becuase there is too much current flowing though it..... why is that?



kick in the circuit breaker (ie open it) and test again.

It will most likely show the alternator as being open to ground. (good news)


Then, measure the other side of the circuit breaker to ground. It will most likely show the short to ground. (bad news)

The problem will bein the wiring between bewteen the circuit breaker and the socket. (not on the alternator side.)

good luck jdm


The ciruit breaker is popping becuase there is too much current flowing though it..... why is that?

[MM32]

I pulled the red wire off of the back of the generator and tested where the wire was removed to ground and it showed shorted to ground. I think this is main coil? I also tested the removed red wire the ground and it showed open. I will open the breaker and retest tomorrow... I think it was open when I tested it today.... but I am not sure... Thanks

[jdm]

ok, but remember this.

The alternator winding is a single long piece of wire.

If the other leg (end) "neutral" of the alternator wire is tied to ground/earth/chassis, then you are measuring this link when measuring on the alternator side of the cirucit breaker. And this is parrallel with the short circuit.


The circuit breaker is popping becuase there is excessive current flowing through it. You need to find out where the short is after the circuit breaker and is connecting to the chassis/earth/ground/other leg of the alternator.

[Arkie]

I'm looking a a wiring diagram of your unit! (but the wire colors I'm seeing are not labeled very well)
If you are talking about the main circuit breaker tripping which is a 41 amp, you need to remove the two wires from the output load side of the circuit breaker the diagram has them labeled a R & L (cannot find the colors)
When these two load wires leave the circuit breaker they go to or through the throttle load sensor then on to the other breakers and receptacles! (the wiring can be shorted inside the load sensor and cause your problem and the other smaller breakers not tripping, because if the coil is shorted INSIDE the load sensor, its before the other smaller breakers)

After you remove the R&L wires from the load side of the breaker, start the unit and use a dry leather or rubber glove and turn the breaker on, using one gloved hand and your other hand not grounded. (I'm trying to keep you electrically safe because this is a 41 amp breaker and a electrical arc can jump the contacts and grab you, so stay safe and ungrounded especially through or across your body to ground! If it trips with BOTH output load wires removed you have a bad breaker, if it does not trip you have a Overload (OL) on the output side of the breaker! Get back to us after this test?

It's normal on the GEN MAIN windings to get a very low readings (.3 ohms) to ground or white wire which is the center tap of the main windings and is normally grounded to the gen frame,! (this is the main winding resistance with the center tap white wire grounded) Both of the wires on the INPUT side of the breaker with the MAIN breaker off should read like .3 ohms to ground, like JDM says in his previous post.
My wiring diagram does not show the colors of the main winding coming to the 41 amp main breaker! You are saying RED and BLUE at the breaker on the winding side? Both of these wires should read low resistance to ground, if not we have a stator winding problem also! (You also need to double check this again and get back to us)Most regular ohmmeters will not read 3/10 of a ohm accurate so a very low resistance or zero is a norm on ANALOG meter. Some DMM's (digital) will read low ohms, some will not!

Get back to use after you run the above test with the wires removed and give me the color of the wires on the breaker.
I suspect the R is Red, but the other color is??

[nevadawalrus]

You really need to order the repair manual so checking proceedure and values for this unit are correct.

Onr thing to check for. Look closely at any standard wall type recepticle, see if any of them appear to be new to unit. Let me know if you determine one is new.

[MM32]

Yep I agree about the manual but I am getting pushed for time... Long story.... Let me start from the beginning. I have two 110 circuits side by side. One has a RED hot and the other has a BLUE hot. When I tested both with an ohm meter to ground the red showed ZERO and the blue was OPEN. I went to back of the generator housing and I have three wires coming out. RED, BLUE and WHITE < Ground >.... With the BLUE and RED wires off I am testing direct to where the wires were attached. I think I should get a similar reading on the RED and BLUE. I understand I am getting the resistance through the coil but I would think they should be about the same. I am getting ZERO on the RED and a unstable reading on BLUE because on the magnetic properties of the coil. With the wires that I disconnected from the back of the generator housing and testing to ground both BLUE and RED are showing OPEN or no shorts to ground. I am thinking that this should be testing the wiring, plugs and any other components for a short to ground.

I guess my concern is with the different reading I am getting coming directly out of the generator. I would expect the RED and BLUE to be the same.... Or the question of the day is.... as always..... What am I missing?

By the way..... This site is AWESOME!!!!

Thanks, MM32, Larry

[smallen]

you have a bad stator winding, both readings need to be the same, .02-.03 ohm from red or blue to the white
you didnt list the serial number, you may have the newer one with gfci protected unit, there is a test and reset button next to the main breaker, if the power is not correct to the gfci relay it can shut the breaker off even with nothing plugged in

[Arkie]

Yep I agree about the manual but I am getting pushed for time... Long story.... Let me start from the beginning. I have two 110 circuits side by side. One has a RED hot and the other has a BLUE hot. When I tested both with an ohm meter to ground the red showed ZERO and the blue was OPEN. I went to back of the generator housing and I have three wires coming out. RED, BLUE and WHITE < Ground >.... With the BLUE and RED wires off I am testing direct to where the wires were attached. I think I should get a similar reading on the RED and BLUE. I understand I am getting the resistance through the coil but I would think they should be about the same. I am getting ZERO on the RED and a unstable reading on BLUE because on the magnetic properties of the coil. With the wires that I disconnected from the back of the generator housing and testing to ground both BLUE and RED are showing OPEN or no shorts to ground. I am thinking that this should be testing the wiring, plugs and any other components for a short to ground.

I guess my concern is with the different reading I am getting coming directly out of the generator. I would expect the RED and BLUE to be the same.... Or the question of the day is.... as always..... What am I missing?

By the way..... This site is AWESOME!!!!

Thanks, MM32, Larry

Forget about Ohms for now! (the service manual does not recommend taking ohms reading of the main stator winding due to the low resistances, they recommend VOLTAGE READINGS of the RED AND Blue MAIN WINDINGS)
Looking at the end of the generator (with the end bell cover off) you will see a 3 wire terminal strip with a BLUE, White, Red wire, top to bottom on the right side!
Set the auto throttle switch to off for these voltage tests so the gen engine will be running at 3600-3700 rpms! (the voltages will not be correct if the engine is idling! I also seen where you suspected that magnetism is upsetting your ohms readings! This is not the case! Magnetism is not involved unles something is rotating or moving that is magnetised!
Leave the main breaker off and start the generator take voltage reading from the Blue wire to Ground and Red wire to Ground and they should be around 120 volts and EQUAL to ground! Blue to Red should be 240 volts! If the Blue reading is off and erratic shut it off and check the connections at the blue wire! If the voltage readings at the Blue AND RED are real low or real high I can tell you how to bypass the Automatic Voltage Regulator (AVR) and test the rotor and stator windings by applying 12v to the brushes, buts thats a later test!
The red and blue wire should both have the same voltage to ground and the same ohms reading to ground from this terminal strip, with the breaker OFF! This is before the breaker and does not explain WHY the breaker is tripping yet! If both voltages are good here we can go back to My other post and remove the wires on the load side of the breaker and continue testing! Get back to us with the Blue and Red voltages! Also you keep indicating that you are NOT getting a OHMS reading to ground from either wire on the LOAD side of the breaker! Don't forget that the wires can be shorted wire to wire, 240 volt wire to wire overload as both wires are wound through the Auto throttle sensor!

Just a heads up! (safety caution) If this gen has a rotor fan on the end of the rotor with a through bolt, do not leave the long bolt out of the rotor if you re-move a cooling fan in this area the rotor can come loose after taking off the fan and Operating the engine, without the bolt re-installed and tight. Sometimes you have to add a shim washer the thickness of the fan thickness so as the bolt is actually tight against the end of the rotor! (STAY SAFE) (I do not see such on yours, but when you have such, the long through rotor bolt holds the rotor to the engine and it's spinning at 3600-3700 rpms and if it comes loose, it may take some of your meat, skin and you may go horzonital permanently!!

I also just now noticed the following! You rotor fan is on the engine end of the rotor so you need not be concerned about a rotor coming loose, etc! I also noticed on the wiring diagram that the 41 or 48 amp main breaker that you say is tripping is a direct feed for your 50 amp twist loc receptacle! (this is the OL breaker for this receptacle plus the ALL others that are protected at lesser amps) The other receptacles has lesser amps ol protection, like 20a and 30 amps! So if the ol was in the 20 or 30 amp receptacles their OL's should trip also because they are lesser amps! Make sure the 50 amps twist lock receptacle is wired correctly and not arcing over RED to Blue or to white or ground if the tests indicate main breaker is OL'ed! A ohms readings sometimes will not show a CARBON arc over. I also notice that the Red and Blue wires JUST loop through the throttle control sensor doughnut, so they are not wound internally and are most likely ok if the insulation on the wires is OK where they loop through the doughnut sensor!

[MM32]

Thanks to all for your help but unfortunately this one had to go to the Honda Shop we ran out of time. I have been told they will let me know the outcome of the problem and I will post it as soon as I know. Man... it hurts not to be able to finish a problem.....

A little more back ground. My son works for the a company that has the contract to maintain the trucks and about anything else that needs fixed for Insight Cable in our area. The manager of the shop ask him to take a look at the generator and see what he could do. If it had been a motor related problem he would have been good to go. He ask me to take a look at the generator when he determined it was electrical. He is under the impression that Dad can still fix anything. He is right of course. I sure hope he doesn't find out about my new found support group. Thanks again for all of your help.