Briggs 12 HP Lagging Start

[stienut13]

Did you check the oil level? See if it's too full, indicating a possible fuel leak in the carb where needle closes on the seat. This will greatly increase internal pressure and prevent cranking. It happened on my single cylinder. Would crank when I jumped it off the truck battery. Glad I had the air filter off to see all the diluted oil blowing out the carb throat. Rebuilt carb, installed shutoff, changed oil. No more problems for just over a year.

Hope this helps.

Jim

[MARLIN]

here 1,2,3 with jumper cables,from you car/truck go to the starter.put the jumper red/pos on starter lug then hook the jumper ground maybe to the muffler pipe.i like to ground to the starter.this will see if the starter works,put the BRAKE ON.there could be 20 + things wrong why it is hard to turn over.Battery could show 12.5 and be bad.check the starter first.let us know.

[Kpack]

Before you go any further take the spark plug out and see how it turns over I worked on mine 2 weeks solid and it was vapor locking from gas seeping by carburator had lock so engine could not turn pulled plug and it spun like a top shot all the gas out now it's good use a cut off when it's not being used so gravity feed doesn't push by carb float I almost pulled what little hair I have out

[Mek-a-nik]

You mentioned the positive post of the battery getting wet. Is it possible that the battery is cracked? If so, it could read the proper voltage, but not allow the amperage through.

[mstar]

I was afraid I was going into too much detail at first and did not want to go through all I did.
I was having an issue with having zero turn over a few weeks back. I was riding along mowing and the engine just cut out. It would not even turn over. I knew it must be electrical since I did not even have the clunk sound when the key was turn and power to the solenoid
So I assumed it was a switch issue or a ground issue since I did a test I found on youtube to check the power going to the small wire on the solenoid. I was told if there was not the 12V there then it was an electrical issue.
When I used the jumper cable test I was getting a small short turn but not a full start since I had put the negative on the battery.
As I stated before, it did seem to turn easy without the plug in. Despite what one person here thinks of me, I had the starter out. It activated fine. I put it back in and had that lag. I took a portable jumpstart battery and clipped it the negative to the frame it spun fine with the starter on the engine,.

I have no idea what was messing up. tested all the switches. I do not have a 4 way switch for my PTO. I have two switches, one open one normally closed. I am thinking one of those was a little stuck. The plate presses on the switches is not pressing very far.

So at this point I knew my starter was operational (And no to my other friend here, I am not saying it was 100% what it is supposed to be drawing ) I know that if 12V is applied it activates.

BTW YES I HAVE A LEAK ISSUE. I have two. The carb does leak gas into the engine. I have a a shut off on my gas line for that but if I forget and it sits gas does get in.
I check the oil regular since I have had water or gas in the oil. I find it will not start until cleaned out.

AFTER I got the power to go from when the key is turned to the solenoid with the clunk lag first time and then second try up to speed it was not starting.
So I drained the oil, checked for water in the carb bowl which as also happened before, and then it started but still with the lag.


Battery- Yes the positive terminal was wet but I was charging in a very damp basement and took the battery outside so was not sure if it was condensation. But I just had the charger on it and it did not get wet on the post. Yes it may be the battery but not sure if I can test it more tan the voltage here.

Do you guys know if 1. the battery testers they use at car places will test if it is good on the amp side of things? 2, do you trust those machines are not just made to sell batteries?
3. do they give a false positive?

Yesterday I put the charger on since I had strained it and right off the charger it was 13V. A few cranks and it iw as 12.7 V It settled a few hours later at 12.6. At 12.6 there is no lag... I think. I will see today what happens. When it was lagging the voltage was 12.2V .

This does make me want to ask, is there a better battery? I have heard of folks who have used the "mower" batteries for 5 years or more. My father has used the same battery 10 years in his John Deere.

This does make me wonder if I still could be drawwing too much so would want to dig into the tests that were mentioned .

Also I use this in the winter. I am thinking maybe I have to keep the battery warm or take it out and keep it warm to help prolong the life right? The $70 interstate did not seem to be much better and as one said only have 6 month warranty. So is there a better battery that can take it and still fit under my seat and not fry anything?

[MARLIN]

charge your battery over night,then bring the battery to a auto parts store,they can test it.does the starter gear look good?

[38racing]

my 3 cents.
1.Battery needs to be 12.5 to get good start but it can have that voltage and fail a load test. I just had a new battery fail but after recharging it , it passed.
2.I had one of those models that cranked too slow to start and after checking other things I found there was too large of a clearance on the intake valve. Being a L-head I had to buy a new valve and grind it to correct clearance. Not sure how clearance got too large as I had used the engine before and this happened after ring job and lapping valves.
3. I have a long post on another forum about doing all the connections and still just a click. While doing voltage drop tests I found that it cranked when I pushed test probe on output connection of the solenoid. I had filed the cable end and tightened it but I removed cable and filed side of the nut against solenoid and replaced cable and ensured outer nut was tight and away she went. I've had several slow cranks recently due to bad ground cabling. In some other thread I have posted links to articles on voltage drop and there is one here on PERR in technical notes.

[mstar]

So if they say the battery is bad or if a full charge turns it over,can I still have a voltage drop? Can that cause the batteries to die quicker? That is if I find a new battery keeps it starting well, did I find the problem or do I need to do the voltage drop tests? It just seems that if a battery has ony a 6 month warranty, 12 months at best, if you get 2 years out of it that is par for the course right?

Anyone recommend batter brands or longer warranty batteries than interstate?

[bgsengine]

Yes, you can still have voltage drop in any circuit whether internal to the battery, or external. - there is an inherent voltage drop in any conductor - it is the same basic principle by which resistors work. - If you have a short run of copper cable, you can run a smaller cable, but the more distance the cable has to stretch, the larger wire size (smaller gauge) you will require to carry the same amp load. - It applies in anything electrical including home wiring, computers (network cabling does have limits on how much distance there can be between any two powered connection points), automotive, OPE, etc.
- any resistance in a circuit whether intentional (Resistors, wire size and length, etc.) or not (corrosion, loose connections, broken wire strands,etc.) results in voltage drop across that part of the circuit.
Voltage drop can be *in* the battery, or outside of the battery - that is the basis by which those fancy new battery testers work by - they measure internal resistance of the battery.
Battery can measure 12.8 (full charge) voltage with a multi-meter, but when applying a load (requiring more than the milli-amps drawn by the meter) the resistance in , say, a battery terminal that has separated from the plates internally, will be too great for higher amp loads, and thus deliver less voltage, which is what you would be measuring doing the voltage drop test. - which is how the Carbon Pile testers work - they apply a load and measure battery voltage drop - but they cannot detect internal resistances of the battery... So, voltage dropping a circuit under load is basically the same as using a carbon pile battery tester, but voltage drops can test more than just the battery.

Ive had a battery that passed the test with the fancy internal resistance tester, and yet failed under carbon pile load testing. - Ive also seen it work the other way. (passes load test, fails internal resistance check)

Installing a brand new battery *may* overcome or mask a voltage drop across a circuit (such as a failing solenoid or sticking/worn starter brushes) simply because it delivers more amps flow through the resistance.. but all things being equal, battery life will be shorter in an application where there is a voltage drop enough to stress the battery on a regular basis.... Thus, if you install a new battery and solve the problem, but there is a heavy resistance or voltage drop in your system, your battery will not last as long as it would otherwise.

As to batteries - as far as I know there are NONE that give a warranty greater than 6 months for O.P.E. applications. If you have room to fit one, you may opt to get an automotive battery of a size that will fit that might have a 2 year warranty (but you'll pay LOTS more!) - it will likely have more CCA than a typical OPE battery.

[mstar]

Well I know not know about that. I paid $70 for the interstate battery. I am , if I can find a small enough auto battery, they are not much more if not less on sale.